@clickclakasdf

I think you need to reread my comments. I'm asking that people keep to the facts (ie the technical aspects) and leave the emotive comentary (ie the DVD looks better) to those who have actually seen both. But since you seem to think the technical aspects are the be all and end all and us poor plebs obviously don't understand that perhaps you could explaine why on the surface of things superior specs, bit rates etc doesn't always result in a superior image? That info is nothing more than a guide and has no bearing on the end result. A low bitrate hand mastered transfer can trounce a high bitrate autopilot transfer. The proof is in the actual watching, something it seems most on AVS don't seem interested in anymore. A basic AVS review these days consists of pouring over stills to find a blemish that might appear in a single frame only, going on a rant demanding a remaster followed by 100 posts from others who have not even viewed the disc. That is not a valuable resource. That is s bunch of children throwing a tanty. And sadly that is now being dragged over here. There are a lot at AVS who try to offer the invaluable info (as I once did at another site) but sadly they are drowned out by the mass of sheep looking to get their 2 mins of fame on a topic they are completely ignorant on.

@ clickcliclasdf

Perhaps actually try watching those discs instead of pouring over stills. So many sheep unable to think for themselves.

I think you may have misread as anger my amusement at somehow being "owned" by the fact(?) that Dragon Dynasty releases are being mastered/encoded/martinized in the UK (by a team that apparently can't pee straight), when that doesn't contradict what I was saying in any way, which is that I expect more from a release from a big-time American company. Now, as I am being cast as some sort of would-be oppressor angered by freedom of thought, you may sense additional amusement. That's OK. And I like it when people think for themselves. Clearly it's all too rare.

Besides, why would I be angry? I'd definitely be angry if I'd pre-ordered this title... but I didn't so I suppose I feel relieved. I still have the excellent Dragon Dynasty DVD which unfortunately remains the best English friendly release out there for this film. I'm disappointed that the disc isn't worth buying, as I was really looking forward to it. I'm surprised it isn't better. I'd think any company would want their first Blu-ray to be a flat-out great disc. This is a disc whose superiority to the DVD is clearly debatable, which seems like probably not the best way for a label to make their Blu-ray debut.

momaw, pans labyrinth and dark city ARE craptacular releases. Unlike other forums, AVS actually discusses the technical side of disc releases. If you are not interested in, or don't understand that information, and just want general observations, that's fine, just don't visit the site. But for those who actually understand the technical discussions, AVS is a valuable resource, like in this case.

Anyway, Dragon Dynasty couldn't pay me to take this release.

Why do I sense anger in your response, Rhythm-X? Is it because people are thinking for themselves? Personally, I will not purchase this product because I feel it is not up to my standards, but just because somebody disagrees with me doen't make them wrong. I was simply stating the facts. You, on the other hand, have used your opinion to stink up yet another board. Shame on you.

OWNED

LOL - the only people who got owned are the people who bought this piece of shit expecting a good faith effort on the part of Dragon Dynasty. Wild Side is based in 25fps-land too - say what you will about the DVNR on that but at least it's not a botched 25fps to 24fps interlaced pile of confusion. Making excuses for this sort of crap says nothing about the product and everything about the total lack of standards of the person making excuses.

AVS lost all credibility when they panned both pans labarynth and dark city. Those guys have nothing better to do than scrutinize still screen caps with magnifying glasses and then complain about imaginary issues or blow minor issues completely out of proportion. it's a fact that this release suffers from some [serious] technical issues. Some of those issues will be a deal breaker for some and that is their choice. What I love about this site is it sticks to the facts and let's people decide for themselves. Instead we have here avs style fanboi crap with sensationalized comments from those who haven't even seen the release.

If you have seen the blu-ray and the dragon dynasty DVD and you think the DVD looks better, then thanks for the info - that helps us. If you are guessing then take it elsewhere.

OK, thanks for the clarification DCJuggler. Your caps do look better than DVD Beaver's. Still not buying this release and sticking with the DD DVD, and this is why:

"buuuut holy crap, this is the most unbelievably screwed up, mangled, flawed piece of crap Blu-ray ever released. The reason it runs 5 minutes shorter than the DVD releases is because it has mangled frame-interpolation from the 25fps/50hz master. It's 1080i60 but it doesn't have any inverse telecine to play at the original 24fps. Instead it's purely interlaced, every frame of it. So it can only be played at 60fps. Instead of 25fps to 24fps, they did 25fps to 60i with frame-blending. The conversion causes every frame to blended together, so there's constant blurring and chopiness. Also, the audio is an unlistenable mess, screwed from the conversion as well. It's completely distorted; pitched too higher, raspy, constantly echos. This just might be the worst disc on the format. I really can't believe this horrific thing was released for this classic. Avoid. Avoid. Avoid. Avoid. Avoid..."

From this thread:

www.avsforum.com

Lots of good information in that thread, including a comparison to the French blu-ray (which definitely looks better, even with some minor cropping), better screen caps from the DD blu-ray and that final confirmation that this is a botched transfer. It all makes sense now. They did have an HD master - they just didn't know what to do with it!

I will definitely be waiting for reviews before purchasing any more product from Dragon Dynasty.

i have the dragon dinasty blu ray and to me looks fantastic. so are no what people want more to be like a new movie to me looks perfect..

Q: Where does the Dragon Dynasty video team operate from?

A: The UK.

OWNED!!!

@Ronin0079

Yes they are from the vivendi/dragon dynasty blu-ray, i recieved it 2 days ago.

I'm sure that it is entirely by coincidence that speeding up the Dragon Dynasty DVD's given runtime by 4% gets you within less than 8 seconds of the Blu-ray's given running time. Nothing fishy about that at all. Or are we to believe that DVDBeaver can't even copy and paste a running time correctly? Them having screenshot issues - that's at least plausible, even though the screenshots just happen to exhibit conversion artifacts identical to the Hong Kong DVD, which is a known PAL to NTSC conversion. It might be expected to see this sort of thing from a small-time UK operation. I expected more from a big-time American operation, especially when a small-time French operation had no similar difficulties.

I am totally stealing "lobster effected".

@ DCJuggler - so you have the Dragon Dynasty blu-ray? Are those screen shots you posted links to from the DD blu-ray?

Ronin0079, You are over reacting, the PQ is quite good and playback is nice and smooth.

You are comparing things to the french release which has HUGE amounts of DNR on it making all detail disappear.
Screenshots :

www.imagebam.com

www.imagebam.com

A few things... first DVDBeaver is notorious for taking screenshot incorrectly. It's possible their method introduced some issues not actually on the disc (I see some aliasing in their screenshots sometimes that's not actually there). Second, they often don't do correct BDInfo scans, they could have copied the runtime from the wrong playlist. Maybe the movie split over multiple m2ts files (Chinese credits version and English credit version for example) and they scanned the playlist that doesn't include the credits. Who knows. Either way, wait for properly taken screenshots. The disc will still be 1080i, but could be better looking than what we see at DVDBeaver.

This is indeed an HD transfer, using the PAL HD D5 50i master provided by Celestial Pictures. It is typical for a small time UK operation to practice this technique.

Look closely at the full-size screen shots - like this one:

DVD Beaver Screen Shot

Make sure you get the full resolution in your browser. Now look at his beard. Where is all the detail? Another example:

DVD Beaver Screen Shot

Look at Gordon Liu's hair. Where is all the detail?

I am almost positive this is an upscale, and not a true HD transfer. The fact that it is 1080i and full of interlacing artifacts points to upscale. The Dragon Dynasty DVD may only be 480i/p, but it is visually a superior transfer. Just because something is listed as HD doesn't make it better. The source material and quality of the transfer are what matters, and Dragon Dynasty have dropped the ball on this one. What is truly mystifying is that they released such a nice looking DVD, but could not produce a competent blu-ray. Although considering their recent track record (releasing cut versions of films, some shoddy DVD transfers, etc.) this is hardly surprising.

Considering that BCI (R.I.P.) released a nice blu-ray of Opium and the Kung Fu Master and that the French blu-ray of 36th Chamber of Shaolin looks great, there is no reason for DD to be passing off an inferior product.

To go out and say that the dvd bests the BD is outrageous, bordering on stupid. All this negativity really stems from only one thing: "Death to Harvey!!!" Please, I've heard it all before. How is it that all these head geeks who pretend to know every little detail about the business, how "Harvey Scissor-hands" "Lobster-effected" one of their child-hood favorites, fail to notice that 1080i is still better than 480p? It boggles the mind.

You're just guessing about the speed though. DVDbeaver would probably have commented if they detected an audio speed up and the visuals are clearly superior. This is far from an ideal release but to suggest the DVD is the version of choice over the bluray is a little premature with the information we do have. 1080i beats 480p and the screenshots clearly show that. This isn't like Police Story which is encoded at 1080p but looks like little more than upscaled DVD.

The DVD is under 8 bucks at Wal-mart. It runs at the correct speed and is from a progressive source. This Blu-ray doesn't and isn't. Advantage - DVD.

This certainly is a sad state of affairs. However, even knowing this, the blu-ray captures (as seen at DVDbeaver) are clearly superior to the already great looking Dragon Dynasty DVD. What to do, what to do.........

I think if you don't already own this masterpiece, you would be mad to get the DVD over the Blu-ray (essentially the same price), but it's hard to find reasons to buy this blu-ray otherwise.

Holy FAIL. DVDBeaver has this as 1080i and with a running time shorter than the R1 DVD by the exact amount of time that would be caused by a PAL to NTSC conversion. It's pretty brutal.